discussion do you think sharing and NTR are the same?

[bdogvn25]

IMO, All sharing is NTR but not all NTR is sharing.

 

[mikeross]

.....

They are fiction and fiction doesn't and shouldn't be put on the same level as reality, otherwise all kinds of things that are portrayed in fiction should not be portrayed at all. Perhaps I can't follow lateral thoughts, as I don't see the connection you are making. The argument I used was that these are games, so it shouldn't be taken too personally by people when some games deal with fetishes that don't cater to their interests or even that they feel negatively about. They can just move to the next game. Your argument is that a specific work is for kids, when it isn't necessarily, but that is an attack on the specific fanbase of that specific work. The argument is not at all comparable. Are the people that don't like NTR the fandom for AVNs with NTR? Clearly not. Or is your argument really that there is only one right way to make an AVN? I mean you did argue earlier that people that like NTR are all kinds of bad things, like indoctrinated or liars and you are arguing now that people that hate NTR have a "different standard for their fiction", as if they own the entire landscape of fiction and NTR has no place in it. So perhaps you are making that argument indeed, but that's not an argument I can agree with. I don't like sth, others may like it. They can play their games and I can play mine. Live and let live.

I will also note a certain level of passive aggression in your post and a few unwelcome attempts to armchair psychologise about why I'm posting here. Including the rather spurious statement that "it's not true you don't particularly care because if it was you wouldn't be saying it", as if someone can't offer an opinion on a topic unless it's an important matter to them. For those reason I will attempt to simply leave this discussion here and just say "agree to disagree".

 

[JoeTheMc84]

They are fiction and fiction doesn't and shouldn't be put on the same level as reality, otherwise all kinds of things that are portrayed in fiction should not be portrayed at all. Perhaps I can't follow lateral thoughts, as I don't see the connection you are making. The argument I used was that these are games, so it shouldn't be taken too personally by people when some games deal with fetishes that don't cater to their interests or even that they feel negatively about. They can just move to the next game. Your argument is that a specific work is for kids, when it isn't necessarily, but that is an attack on the specific fanbase of that specific work. The argument is not at all comparable. Are the people that don't like NTR the fandom for AVNs with NTR? Clearly not. Or is your argument really that there is only one right way to make an AVN? I mean you did argue earlier that people that like NTR are all kinds of bad things, like indoctrinated or liars and you are arguing now that people that hate NTR have a "different standard for their fiction", as if they own the entire landscape of fiction and NTR has no place in it. So perhaps you are making that argument indeed, but that's not an argument I can agree with. I don't like sth, others may like it. They can play their games and I can play mine. Live and let live.

I will also note a certain level of passive aggression in your post and a few unwelcome attempts to armchair psychologise about why I'm posting here. Including the rather spurious statement that "it's not true you don't particularly care because if it was you wouldn't be saying it", as if someone can't offer an opinion on a topic unless it's an important matter to them. For those reason I will attempt to simply leave this discussion here and just say "agree to disagree".

It seems you are unable to understand my point, according to your own admission. Unfortunate, as there is literally no way I could be more clear about my points that you won't equally dismiss in your lack of understanding. However, for the sake of others and my own sense of completeness, I'll lay out how it all started and try once more to be clear.

This was your first post that I responded to:

Never quite understood why NTR and/or sharing gets such a visceral response in the adult-VN sphere. It goes beyond just not liking it and almost to something primal. I mean, these are just games, they often deal with all kinds of topics most people wouldn't want to engage with in reality. So why this topic specifically? Why not for example rape, or torture?

Either way, NTR and sharing are different as per my understanding. The first is unwilling and implies a certain degree of powerlessness, or so-called beta-status, the second requires consent and doesn't necessarily imply specific power dynamics.

In it you stated, "Never quite understood why NTR and/or sharing gets such a visceral response in the adult-VN sphere. It goes beyond just not liking it and almost to something primal," To whit, I explained a reason why, rooted in human nature and psychology, which is a point you didn't address and ignored in your response. Thus revealing you really weren't that interested in a good faith discussion. And that a reason for the "visceral and primal" response also comes in response to the insults and aggression that simply saying, "I don't care for NTR or sharing," is met with. And it being the only fetish ground that is treated that way. Which was yet another argument you didn't address, or couldn't understand.

You also said, "these are just games," which is itself passive aggressive and is a statement of superiority and dismissiveness on your part, hence why my response was worded the way it was, I was matching your energy.

You stated, "So why this topic specifically?" Which I also addressed, often this topic is the only one developers and players actively lie about and hide, which is the point you still seems to miss the most. No one is saying "that there is only one right way to make an AVN," as you dismissively and strawman accused me of. It is that if a developer says they are making one type of game and make another, thus they are rightly an asshole and should be called such. Since you can't follow laterally thought, by your own admission, this is for those who can. It is like when a person says, "I'm making a historical romance novel," but delivers an epic space opera. It is a deception. That is a huge part of the issue,

One of your final statements was, "The first is unwilling and implies a certain degree of powerlessness, or so-called beta-status, the second requires consent and doesn't necessarily imply specific power dynamics," which was another of your points I tried to dismantle, that you then didn't address in your response that relied entirely on the dismissive and passive aggressive, "It's just a game bro, why you take it so serious," which was why my next post upped the response in tone. And in your statement when you said, "so-called beta-status" it revealed a further dismissive and passive aggressive strawman caricature of those who don't like NTR. Which again, is the tone and energy I matched in my follow-up response.

--

You set the tone of the discussion, I responded, you then didn't address a single issue I refuted or laid out in anything resembling a good faith discussion, and now you further strawman me and either don't want to, or are incapable of, understanding my points as you are still solely standing on the dismissive argument of "It ain't real bro, it's a game, why do you care," mentality of passive aggressive superiority.

So this isn't a moment of "agree to disagree" it is a moment of you being dismissive and disingenuous from the start, me still trying to address it in good faith, you increasing your dismissiveness and refusing to actually read my statements (or inability to do so, if I take your self admissive as honest), you soundly losing the argument (in no small part for refusing to engage in good faith) and now retreating while still trying to maintain the moral high ground over the "guy who takes it too serious." So make of it what you will, But I, for one, am tired of the fact that I give a damn about my hobby and don't share the cuckold fetish, being treated as some kind of failure on my part, which your morally superior and disingenuous statement of "it's just a game, why do people have such a visceral reaction to it," did. Your retreat is an admission that my stance is correct and you have no counter for it. Or you are incapable of countering my points, which was your own self admission. We do not "agree to disagree," that is something that takes consent from both of us, and I do not consent, I do not yield the floor to you. I deny your stance being equal to mine, as we both asserted affirmative positions and they are not equal and cannot both be true.

I do, however, thank you for the surrender to my position. It is always nice to be affirmed in one's beliefs.

 

[PervyGod]

I'd say sharing and Netorase are pretty much the same, so if you mean that part of NTR then yes. NTR is sadly actually three different kinks in a trenchcoat.

 

[partymanimal]

I hate both but i think sharing is implied that the character is into it and willing whereas ntr the character is implied not into it and not willing. not the same

 

[Vidilo]

I think NTR is a catch-all term, which is different for everybody and means "Anything that I, personally, don't like, that involves others" - so, if you like sharing, it's not NTR. If you don't like it, you will include it in that term.

 

[impisi]

I feel like there's somewhat of a distinction in that sharing implies that all parties consent to it in a sort of open relationship, and not in a cuckolding way where anyone is sitting out and watching or anything like that.

NTR is more overtly "I'm going to fuck this loser's girlfriend" and generally tends to be more mean-spirited as a hallmark.

 

[Trogdor69]

its hard to say because NTR isnt just one thing so it could fall under it

 

[HarelM]

Netorare (NTR) is cheating by fucking someone who isn't your partner (without that partner's knowledge or without their consent). Netorase (NTR?) is swapping or sharing, where all parties know about and consent to the fucking(s) between non-partners.

Neither is for me, and I really appreciate AVN Devs who offer gates to make such content optional (Perverteer's 'Sisterly Lust', for example). In those games with pregnancy content, I particularly dislike NTR/sharing because I want only my fantasy sperms to have the opportunities.

IRL, I'd never consent to sharing a woman with other men, even though I'd be amenable to having multiple females to myself (if that fantasy ever came true). I see it as 'biology', since a (mentally healthy) woman automatically knows that children she gives birth to are hers, but a man only has (well had, historically) the woman's word and character to go by (unless he could control her totally...) to be confident that her children were his.

Just asking for a Dev to consider putting in such optional switches seems to cause NTR/Sharing enjoyers to loudly defend the games that have it as hard coded content. As if making it optional destroys something about the game.

Personally, I understand that my power fantasy in the games that have only one dick getting wet (the Protag's... 'mine') is unrealistic, but I don't get porn or play games for strong verisimilitude, but for the fantasy. And I don't watch porn to see dicks getting wet, especially not several dicks (it's why I really appreciate PoV). I want allll the pussy, and all the pussy only wants (or gets) me. Imagining myself in the protag's place may be a failing of mine, but it's common enough, I'd guess.

 

[aRedHeadedMenace]

Isn't there an actual definition? Why don't we stick to that?

 

[Intorpecido]

Classic Japanese NTR was the betrayal by the saint who corrupts the wife and destroys the lives of both stories, animations and movies I like but games not even I play some recommended games but it's not my thing it awakens some feelings nor does the girl become attractive much less the sex scene.
I find the western NTR horrible, first the MC and Li don't have a real relationship the couple doesn't even have a decent love scene nothing at most LI making fun of the MC, in the end the alpha's air cannot be dirty by the beta, MC we have two types, the ugly one with a small dick or the effeminate one with a small dick both are dumb and submissive, they are there to be humiliated and represent the player, the story is always the same the consent of the player or the MC makes little difference.
A happy cuckold is not a sharing even if YOU gave consent since he is the second in the relationship, he has all the elements of a tame cuckold, the LI is never satisfied with the MC's sex, he stops having sex to find another guy, the MC always catches the LI leaking sperm, the sex is limited to handjobs and oral sex, the other guy does not introduce himself as a boyfriend or in a relationship with the LI, the other guy has free pass to get any woman the MC does not and so on this is not sharing.
Sharing for me is a three-way relationship, the LI MC and another guy, both in this type of relationship of freedom and responsibility in the relationship, the MC will not just watch a blowjob, the LI will suck both of them at the same time, the MC will not masturbate in the corner of the room, he will do a DP on the LI, both will have their encounters and both will have their individual sex.
Betrayal is also different from Netorare since the objective is not to show or humiliate the MC despite being part of NTR, just as any content before or after the end of the relationship for me is not NTR.
Avoidable ntr, this is usually worse than a purely NTR game, and a flood of NTR content on the non-NTR route, there are very rare situations where this does not occur, not to mention that you have to intervene or she will suck the father of the first NPC who speaks, or a stupid trigger that has nothing to do with it, I swear to god I played a game where if the MC chose the chocolate ice cream he would betray the MC, it doesn't even make sense and it ends the fun of those who are not on the NTR route.
We didn't forget the NTR trap that made me hate NTR, you're playing a romance, an incest or a harem and out of nowhere the developer decides to throw in that fetish with no option for the player and still thinks it's bad with the complaint. And you know what's funny, tell the developer to put in a route for the MC to corrupt the alpha's wife who is corrupting the MC's LI the crying that was in fuck95 didn't last three days before being deleted just the act of having the route would ruin their fetish.

 

[Gaminggxz]

Fairly the same

 

[4oomci]

I'm pretty sure sharing is more consensual for both parties, sometimes in participation, in contrast to NTR, which usually only the males want.

 

[Mr_Ozzo]

No, to me sharing is just a variation of orgy. As an NTR enjoyer sharing dose nothing for me

 

[Fxfa]

NTR is more about the humiliation and corruption of the people involved. Sharing not so much.

 

[HornDragon]

Not really only similarity is other parties banging your chick.

 

[nikolai777]

Never.

Sharing depending your situation you're part of the action (not matter if you're spectator or even the third person in the sex) or at least you give your consent. NTR can be more fucked up because you will start to thinking when did it started and what you did wrong in the relation and it will cost you to recover from it

 

[depisher]

It's like a square and a rectangle, every sharing is NTR, but not always NTR is sharing

 

[Malaguart]

Sharing and netorare are not even close, but sharing is pretty similar to netorase.

 

[BrodyPresto]

It all boils down to ignorance. For non-coffee drinkers, all coffee might taste the same, differing only in whether you add milk or not. But in reality, factors like how the beans are ground and where they’re grown all affect the taste.
My point is that this also applies to NTR. If it’s something you knowingly choose and acknowledge, that’s sharing. In NTR, you’re an unwilling participant.